This is for a sci-fi console style RPG that I''m working on...the story is built around a "morel dilema" that would provide for story branching and multiple endings...I''m just posting to solicit opinions...so C&C are quite welcome here we go... Background: some point in the far future, massive levels of enviromental abuse and a huge overpopulation problem, forces ALL of mankind into space...this event is known as the exodus...no humans were left on Earth...only the animals and plantlife which were left to thier own devices for survival, in the homes that mother nature could heal itself without the futile influence of man. The plot: The year is 327 A.E. (After Exodus). Mankind has conqured the solar system, but traveling outside of it is considered impossable as there is no Faster Then Light meens of travel. The vast majority of mankind lives in thousands of giant space cities that are in orbit around the solar system (roughly simular to Halley''s Comet orbit). Corporations have replaced nations as the form of government power structures. Only the richest of the rich can afford to visit (let alone live on) such places as Mars, and the moons of Jupitor (generaly the closer to Earth you are, the more expensive it is). All the corporations are required to contribute funding to the Earth Protection Aliance (aka EPA...until I figue out something else to call it). This EPA is charged with the task of keeping wayword ships from landing on Earth as well as other policeing actions involveing the area imeadiantly surrounding the planet...This agency is composed of the "best of the best" and is quite feared throughout the solar system (no one has ever gotten past thier forces to land on Earth sense established in 22 A.E....no one has stepped foot on Earth..and the entire purpose of the EPA is that it stays that way). The Problem... The entire population of mankind is now topping 23 Trillion...over 50 times the number who first left earth in the Exodus...and liveing in space has really started to get to them...the vast majority want to return to Earth, to breath freash air, to see real animals (not the little robotic reproductions), in short, space has become a soul crushing experience...but, for everyone to return, is problematic at best as the planet couldn''t support such a large population without reverting back to the problems that lead to the Exodus in the first place... And further, space isn''t what it was cracked up to be...the distances are extreamly huge, makeing travel a impossably lengthy process...there are no alien life forms to pop in and help mankind out...staying where they are in space is a clear and proven option, but very depressing at the same time. The game... Players will take control of a group of characters who will ultimately decide the fate of Earth...either directly, or by influence...During the game players will be given a choice to join a number or resistance groups, or even the EPA thats out to subdue them... There will be no aliens, or sudden discoveries of a meens of FTL travel (so mankind can colonize planets orbiting other stars)...it''s all about solveing a problem that has no clear, fair, and simple solution... How does that sound as a basic overview...there is a lot more worked out in detail (much of the beginning of the game takes place inside one of those drab grey and clostrophobic star cities, hopefully in order to allow players to identify with the main characters depression over their situation)...So I''m more concerned if this is a story hook that "grabs you"... Thanks

Sounds good

the idea sounds interesting IMHO but there are a few things i need to know before i can post a somehow 'wise' comment:

- what exactly is the 'moral dilemma'... i dont see any conflict about the descisions you mentioned... nothing needs to be sacrified for one of the possiblities

-as i asume you want to give the player a reletively wide choice in the beginning(or midgame). but this will as i think not work together with the concept of a moral dilemma in two ways:
a] the decision should be taken in the end... not early on
b] the whole game after the decision will have to deal with something else (no good) or with the aftermath of the decision ( no good eiter since the decision is allready taken and the furure is 'set' -> no way for the player to alter fate )

- your numbers are unrealistic:
NO (human) population can grow that fast.
Where do they get food from? (not a real problem
since its sf, but if they got some kind of food creation machine... why should people work any longer?)

- another thing which is as i think unrealistic from a sociological way is the idea of the whole population wanting to return to earth. the story is settled about 7 generations after the exodus and so they would have allready accecpted their fate. furthermore the reasons for them to get exhausted of their life are not strong enough i think. not breathing fresh air or not seeing real animals will IMHO not make a population that sad ( a given sience enabling 23 trillions to live in space would surely find ways to stop these problems ).

-the last problem is that you did not explain why no one is alowed to return to earth.

i hope you can answer these questions ... dont take it to serious that i only posted critic. i actually think your idea of the problem is good, but the exposition needs to be worked on a bit (reducing the population by only making one/two/three supercities for example (they are a fascinating idea so dont drop them) )

[ps]

im missing the religious(not exactly about religion, more about adding some spiritual things) part in the story a bit, but if its a PC-RPG this is ok .
Imagine FFVII for example... and now try to exclude jenova. u get what i mean?
(btw: console rpgs are better then pc ones IMHO)

[edited by - BB-Pest on December 31, 2002 9:59:10 AM]

[edited by - BB-Pest on December 31, 2002 10:00:35 AM]

Thanks for the input...to answer some of your questions:

quote:
- what exactly is the ''moral dilemma''... i dont see any conflict about the descisions you mentioned... nothing needs to be sacrified for one of the possiblities

The dilema entails trying to please as many of the 23 trillion as possable...verses just trying to please yourself...everyone that wants to return to Earth isn''t going to have thier wish granted... "The meek will inherit the Earth", and it''s up to the player to decide just who the meek are...

quote:
-as i asume you want to give the player a reletively wide choice in the beginning(or midgame). but this will as i think not work together with the concept of a moral dilemma in two ways:
a] the decision should be taken in the end... not early on
b] the whole game after the decision will have to deal with something else (no good) or with the aftermath of the decision ( no good eiter since the decision is allready taken and the furure is ''set'' -> no way for the player to alter fate )

There are a number of groups within the game...each with a seperate agenda concerning Earth...
1} One group is fighting to allow everyone who wants to return to Earth, to do so...this group (as the story develops) will splinter in two...with the more agressive side realiseing that 23 Trillion can''t live on Earth, and so they have no quams reduceing the population to a more manageable size
2) Another group wants to take a more modest approch...they are seeking to "recreate genesis"...by allowing only a single male and female to exist on Earth (with a bunch of hidden survalence equipment to watch over them, and broadcasting the result throughout the solar system)...this is sort of simular to the film "the Truman Show"...and the group will splinter into different factions basied on who the male and female will be (how will they be chosen, etc..)
3) the EPA who are charged with protecting the Earth would typicaly push for group number 2...and is out to stop group number 1 (especialy the destructive sub-group)...but within the EPA some ideas have formed about createing a virtual Earth for people to plug themselves into...this is meeting some resistance from corporations as many of the 23 Trillion people have become "virtual world addicts" (especialy the poorer folks liveing out in the space cities)...which meens that the entire economy could colapse (people have to pay to use Virtual Worlds...but often times addicts spend so much time in them that they become unable to do other tasks that make them money to pay for thier addiction..

quote:
- your numbers are unrealistic:
NO (human) population can grow that fast.
Where do they get food from? (not a real problem
since its sf, but if they got some kind of food creation machine... why should people work any longer?)

Clones, cyborgs, robots, and good old humans are the major "races"...nearly everyone works...even the industrial robots were given advanced AI that mimics a human personality[born from semi-organic AI processer chips]...Corporations are constantly pushing the economy forward...As such industrial robots arn''t exactly "bolted to the factory floor" and instead they are given pay which they can then use to purchase goods (sort of the ultimate consumer...as each such robotic AI can be programmed in some way to always pursue the latest fad)...23 Trillion includes all four of these groups...of which some 60% are true humans...

quote:
- another thing which is as i think unrealistic from a sociological way is the idea of the whole population wanting to return to earth. the story is settled about 7 generations after the exodus and so they would have allready accecpted their fate. furthermore the reasons for them to get exhausted of their life are not strong enough i think. not breathing fresh air or not seeing real animals will IMHO not make a population that sad ( a given sience enabling 23 trillions to live in space would surely find ways to stop these problems ).

This has more to do with liveing in a synthetic world (the space cities...even the Virtual worlds) and the basic nature of man...the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, as they say...and in some 7 generations of existing in space...even with the constant growth economy...the wieght of the synthetic experience begins to choke mankinds natural wild animalistic history...besides space has become the known, everyday experience that offers nothing really new (even traveling to other star systems, would only offer up shades of thier current existance)...while the Earth takes on the mantle of being "the wild untamed frontier"...

quote:
-the last problem is that you did not explain why no one is alowed to return to earth.

In the story...mankind saw how distructive they were...to the enviroment, to each other...and so they left for space....but in doing so, they didn''t leave thier nature behind...the world of the space cities is very simular to our current suburban existance...there is the equivelant of a McDonalds on every corner...in short mankind hadn''t learned anything in the Exodus...so why should they be allowed to return?

quote:
im missing the religious(not exactly about religion, more about adding some spiritual things) part in the story a bit, but if its a PC-RPG this is ok .

Some of the various groups that the player can join have a bit of a religious frenzy in how they want to solve the problems...but it really isn''t about religion per say...and really the groups who more or less seem religiously charged are basicly trying to play god...

I got insperation for the idea from auther Philip K Dick...how, in his stories, space was treated more or less as an extension of our current Earth and human ideals...He saw mankind''s dominace of space to include bringing shopping malls to Mars...McDonalds on every corner, etc...very different then what is presented in Star Trek
Also the film Fight Club provided some insperation...as the core ideas of mindlessly following shallow consumerisam does sorta effect us...in some ways this is sort of a futureistic version of that film...but without the core plot twists of two seemingly different people actualy being one split personality.

Hopefully this answeres some of your questions...I tried to not get too deep into the planned story...but I will let you know...that some of the planned characters that can join your "party" each have thier own idea of which group is correct...meening your character''s friends may ultimately become thier worst enemy, basied on the players actions which align them with one group over another (hopefully this would allow for lots of replay

quote:
whileawayan wrote:

I hate to say it... but this isn''t your story. This is your backstory. You''re not going to hook anyone with a history lesson - even if it''s future history. Show us who your characters are, what problems they face, and how they overcome them. That''s what a story is.

Quite true...however, as I stated above, there are several endings to the story, as well as a nest of plot threads to work through...which in turn puts more weight on the backstory to carry things forward. Besides I can only describe the characters through thier personnel backstory as well, simply because once the player gets involved...the problems said character faces, and how they overcome them...change depending on player input.

Maybe I shouldn''t have titled the thread "RPG story"?

quote:
callmenick wrote:

i think it is all pretty good. my only critisism is you should rethink the whole joining a group thing.

Erm...I''m prolly mistateing the whole group thing...
The groups arn''t like some sort of exclusive club, where, once you join; it''s impossable to leave...Think of the groups as being more like some type of character good/evil aliegnment (but not completely good/evil)...

Basicly how they work is that behind the scenes (in the game engine) there will be a variable for each group in relation to the character...as the game is played certain specific actions can cause one/some/or all of these "group" values to change. and depending on the current status of these values different events, NPC reactions, and situations can occur...

For example...the player might be asked if a particular group is great!...say that the player answers "YES!" (stat for that group increases by 20...but decreases another groups stat by 35)...or maybe they answer "I guess so" (group stat increases by 5)...then a little later the player stumbles upon a meeting place of that group (at which point the game script may check if a particular stat is greater then 15 and give the player a bunch of warm welocomeing NPC to deal with...else they may get a set of NPCs that give the player the cold shoulder treatment...or maybe NPCs that are outright hostile)...you don''t have to outright joins any group but the actions and choices that the player makes changes thier group aliegnment stats to the point that events and situations can change

quote:
Bagel Man wrote:

Growing by a factor of 50 in 327 years is actually pretty low. It would only be a growth of well under 1.5x per generation.

I did a little investigation into overpopulation and pretty much found the same conclusion...

In something like 1803 the world population reached 1 billion....100 years later we are nearing 8 times that many...It''s estimated that the world population will reach something like 285 billion in 150 years if the current growth rate continues...if it drops to 2.5 and stays there...in 150 years the total world population will reach some 28 billion (which is close to the number I had in mind (46 billion) when the Exodus was to occur, as is the timeframe, as I initialy wanted to place the story some 500 years in the future, meening the Exodus occurs around 2175...

If the average person lived into thier 80s (for the sake of argument) and they have two children when they were twenty (and the child does the same when he/she reaches 20...as does thier children,etc..)...starting with ten people (5 males, 5 females)...in the first year there would be 10 people...in the 20th year there would be 30 (ten parents with 2 kids each)...in the 40th year there would be 70 people (ten original parents, 20 first born children, and 40 grand kids)...in the 60th year there would be 150 people (10 originals, 20 first born, 40 grand kids, and 80 great-great grand kids)...in the 80th year there would be 300 people (20 first borns, 40 grand kids, 80 great grand kids, 160 great-great-great grandkids...minus the 10 original parents who died)...an increase of 30 in only 80 years!

How about making the EPA a little religiously corrupt. Lets say that since they are the "richest people alive" the founders also could afford the life support systems that alowed them to live these 300 so years. As long as the founders are alive, they are consitered the soul rulers of the Council. They are the secret society, which controls the EPA''s decisions, that say since they were the ones who prompted the Exodus, and "saved the people" with their wise knowledge, they are the only ones who should live on Earth. They make the population-problem up as an excuse to keep the poor within their control because they know how much space weakens the form of the body. They made sure that no one could be strong enought to oppose them so they can rule the world. Since they succeeded, it would be your job to find out that truth and either join them or expose them for the vile corrupt people they are.

Now that would be a moral dilima!

I''d say if you want to make a depressing space town make it a little like Seattle of today only make the city have to shut down power frequently to most non-vital systems to power the sheilds due to meteor storms. Make it hecktic to live in space!

Have news flashes about another city in the outter reaches of Pluto being wiped out by metor shower -- millions of people being killed with underground news groups blaming the EPA for not moving them to a safer orbital path...

Make it very oppressive, where only the rich and cleverly skilled survive.

Who agrees with me?