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RPG != Fantasy
Author
I''ve been reading these forms for a week or two now, and it kinda of annoys me to see that every idea for an RPG is a fantasy game with powerful magic spells.
How come everyone use this idea? Where are all the non fantasy rpgs? Is anyone making non fantasy RPGS? What''s your view on this subject?
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Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document
You mean you can have RPGs that don''t include magic? Rad...
-geo
MEB | MEB Mk3 | Horns | Jazz | CGuard | WGuard | Perc | DCP | 4E3: Ele | Chem | redeye | redeyeV2
-geo
MEB | MEB Mk3 | Horns | Jazz | CGuard | WGuard | Perc | DCP | 4E3: Ele | Chem | redeye | redeyeV2
Let's start with the first RPG (more or less): Dungeons & Dragons. The game was based on the works of J.R.R. Tolkien. So every geek on the face of the earth played D&D throughout for the past 25 years. So a lot of the earlier RPG designers were veteran D&D (and other similar P&P RPGs) players. They just wanted to be able to play D&D on their computer. Now some of the younger designers grew up playing these fantasy computer RPGs and want to make them like good ol' times. Now it's just standard to make an RPG based on fantasy, and since fantasy is a proven market, and publishers don't like to take chances, there are a lot of fantasy RPGs out. So that is pretty much how this whole fantasy thing came about (in my opinion).
But there are different types of RPGs out there. There are plenty of sci-fi ones. If you look around teh intarweb, there are a few of 'real-life' RPGs where you try and get rich, have sex with that chick, etc.
[edited by - tuxx on July 23, 2003 8:43:12 PM]
But there are different types of RPGs out there. There are plenty of sci-fi ones. If you look around teh intarweb, there are a few of 'real-life' RPGs where you try and get rich, have sex with that chick, etc.
[edited by - tuxx on July 23, 2003 8:43:12 PM]
well, i cannot speak for anyone else, but my own motivation for making such a "fantasy" RPG is that i have been largely disappointed by every single one of these existing games that i have ever played. as such i wanted to create a game with all of the good things that are in other games, and to build on them and fill in the holes as i see fit. this doesn''t mean i want to copy other people''s ideas, because using magic isn''t really any single person''s idea. rather i want to take all of the systems that i see in other games and refine them to the nth degree.
i did have an idea for a sci-fi RPG, but it has taken a backseat to my current design project. all i have for sure is, ya know, the basics... set in the future, maybe on earth/maybe not, cyborgs, ai, aliens, laser guns, the whole deal. but as of right now a coherent design vision eludes me.
i did have an idea for a sci-fi RPG, but it has taken a backseat to my current design project. all i have for sure is, ya know, the basics... set in the future, maybe on earth/maybe not, cyborgs, ai, aliens, laser guns, the whole deal. but as of right now a coherent design vision eludes me.
I''d actually prefer something that was an interesting hybrid of fantasy & sci-fi. Preferably where they were combined in weird and new ways.
One of my pet ideas for a setting is sort of like Shadowrun but not all dark & menacing. What would happen if there was magic, and there were elves and dwarves and dragons and stuff, BUT the humans didn''t kill them all off? How much technology would people have developed, since they had magic to do things with? What if Bill Gates was a dwarf, or Oprah was an elf, or somesuch? Would there be reservations for elves instead of Native Americans? Would humans even CARE about the color of their skins, when they have to live with elves and dwarves? What would a Chinese elf look like? The list goes on and on.
And here''s another idea that just popped into my head. What would happen if aliens contacted a world full of magic and elves and stuff? Would the people steal the alien technology or try to create spells to do the same things? (Imagine a spaceship that''s held together with magic instead of all the forcefields and stuff Star Trek uses.) Would there be war between the locals and the aliens, or since these people would already be living with nonhumans, would they even care about getting rid of the aliens? And if they decided to take advantage of alien technology in what amounts to the middle ages, what kinds of technology would they have developed by their equivalent of our modern times?
Of course these ideas would need major fleshing out to be useful, but the point is, there''s infinite possibilities even if you don''t stray too far from elements in a traditional fantasy story/game.
If a squirrel is chasing you, drop your nuts and run.
One of my pet ideas for a setting is sort of like Shadowrun but not all dark & menacing. What would happen if there was magic, and there were elves and dwarves and dragons and stuff, BUT the humans didn''t kill them all off? How much technology would people have developed, since they had magic to do things with? What if Bill Gates was a dwarf, or Oprah was an elf, or somesuch? Would there be reservations for elves instead of Native Americans? Would humans even CARE about the color of their skins, when they have to live with elves and dwarves? What would a Chinese elf look like? The list goes on and on.
And here''s another idea that just popped into my head. What would happen if aliens contacted a world full of magic and elves and stuff? Would the people steal the alien technology or try to create spells to do the same things? (Imagine a spaceship that''s held together with magic instead of all the forcefields and stuff Star Trek uses.) Would there be war between the locals and the aliens, or since these people would already be living with nonhumans, would they even care about getting rid of the aliens? And if they decided to take advantage of alien technology in what amounts to the middle ages, what kinds of technology would they have developed by their equivalent of our modern times?
Of course these ideas would need major fleshing out to be useful, but the point is, there''s infinite possibilities even if you don''t stray too far from elements in a traditional fantasy story/game.
If a squirrel is chasing you, drop your nuts and run.
As I mentioned at the beginning of my thread, by designing a fantasy RPG I was ''breaking one of my golden rules.'' Some of the best RPGs are non-fantasy though - played Fallout?
Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3
Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3
This is a subject which has bothered me for a long time. Everyone gratuitously associates fantasy with RPGs, and most RPG games out there have absolutely nothing to do with RP, but are classed as such simply because of a fantasy setting. Either that or because the game is created in the style of another game which has been classified as RPG (such as Zelda, phantasy star, final fantasy, ultima, etc).
Being an RPG has absolutely no relevence to being fantasy. A role-playing game''s only requisite is that the game is about playing a role. Furthermore, fantasy doesn''t mean magic and elves - it is probably the broadest superset of genres in existence, but people always seem to think of it in the narrowest sense imaginable.
Fallout is an RPG. Fallout is even fantasy. But do you see and magic or elves or even a trace of medieviality?
Yes, sci-fi is a subset of fantasy, and there are a number of sci-fi RPGs, but that''s not even scratching the surface of what fantasy can mean.
The original System Shock is one of the most pure examples of an RPG out there, yet it completely lacks the character interaction which is so much a calling-card of RPGs, so it risks being overlooked as such.
Strike commander featured plenty of role-playing, and had a completely role-based storyline, but it''s a combat flight sim, so that''s how people think of it.
The original Legend of Zelda is a borderline case. I guess that it is sort of an RPG, lacking a better grouping, but with a definate arcade action slant. But top-down walk-aroundy games similar to this are being considered RPG automatically, without concern for content.
Diablo is not an RPG. It just happens to be set in a fantasy world resembling those of many RPGs. It does not incorporate any playing of roles, but rather the assumption that the role is already played, and would be better classed in the hack-and-slash subset of adventure, since the game is almost entirely adventuring, with a tiny bit of economics. Very nice game, though, but misclassed severely.
Being an RPG has absolutely no relevence to being fantasy. A role-playing game''s only requisite is that the game is about playing a role. Furthermore, fantasy doesn''t mean magic and elves - it is probably the broadest superset of genres in existence, but people always seem to think of it in the narrowest sense imaginable.
Fallout is an RPG. Fallout is even fantasy. But do you see and magic or elves or even a trace of medieviality?
Yes, sci-fi is a subset of fantasy, and there are a number of sci-fi RPGs, but that''s not even scratching the surface of what fantasy can mean.
The original System Shock is one of the most pure examples of an RPG out there, yet it completely lacks the character interaction which is so much a calling-card of RPGs, so it risks being overlooked as such.
Strike commander featured plenty of role-playing, and had a completely role-based storyline, but it''s a combat flight sim, so that''s how people think of it.
The original Legend of Zelda is a borderline case. I guess that it is sort of an RPG, lacking a better grouping, but with a definate arcade action slant. But top-down walk-aroundy games similar to this are being considered RPG automatically, without concern for content.
Diablo is not an RPG. It just happens to be set in a fantasy world resembling those of many RPGs. It does not incorporate any playing of roles, but rather the assumption that the role is already played, and would be better classed in the hack-and-slash subset of adventure, since the game is almost entirely adventuring, with a tiny bit of economics. Very nice game, though, but misclassed severely.
Let me ask you this; Which game ISN''T a RPG (except for puzzle-games like tetris etc.)? I mean flight-sims, you''re playing the role of an aircraft captain. FPS Shooters, the role of some mercenary, super-hero. Mech-commander games, The role of a Mech-driver. Civilization-style games, take the role of a empire-ruler. Black & White, Populus; play god...
-Luctus
Statisticly seen, most things happens to other people.
[Mail]
-Luctus
Statisticly seen, most things happens to other people.
[Mail]
Author
Fantasy and sci-fi arn''t the same thing there both fiction but otherwise completely diffrent. Fantasy is taken to mean mytho historic games, that contain magic, mythical creates and various other tolkenesq creatures. While sci-fi is about future based games, that generally incorpate advanced or alien technoloy. These to can be blended into sci-fi fantasy games but they are sperate generes
fantasy: elves running around with magic swords.
Sci-fi
eople flying around is spaceships with lasers.
Sci-fi Fantasy: Elves flying around in spaceships.
There are also uncountable subgenres of each. For instance Fallot is a post apoclypitc game, a subclass of sci-fi.
AS for what is RPG, simple answer is game that has character development both in terms of gameplay such as increaseing, skills,stats, level, whatever. As well as through the games story. As overall gameplay revolves around the central story and not the other way around.
So accorsing to that defination, zelda isn''t an RPG its an action adventure game, because there is no ingame character development. the sims isn''t an RPG its a simulation game, because there is no story. Final Fantasy, is an RPG it has all 3. X-com isn''t an RPG its a strategy game, since its emphizies gameplay and not story.
Like wise according to my defination those MMORPG like, everquest, are not RPG''s they have RPG elements but there more like the sims.
-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document
fantasy: elves running around with magic swords.
Sci-fi
eople flying around is spaceships with lasers.Sci-fi Fantasy: Elves flying around in spaceships.
There are also uncountable subgenres of each. For instance Fallot is a post apoclypitc game, a subclass of sci-fi.
AS for what is RPG, simple answer is game that has character development both in terms of gameplay such as increaseing, skills,stats, level, whatever. As well as through the games story. As overall gameplay revolves around the central story and not the other way around.
So accorsing to that defination, zelda isn''t an RPG its an action adventure game, because there is no ingame character development. the sims isn''t an RPG its a simulation game, because there is no story. Final Fantasy, is an RPG it has all 3. X-com isn''t an RPG its a strategy game, since its emphizies gameplay and not story.
Like wise according to my defination those MMORPG like, everquest, are not RPG''s they have RPG elements but there more like the sims.
-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document
quote: Original post by TechnoGoth
AS for what is RPG, simple answer is game that has character development both in terms of gameplay such as increaseing, skills,stats, level, whatever. As well as through the games story. As overall gameplay revolves around the central story and not the other way around.
Too simple, IMO. If that''s what RPG is, it''s a misnomen.
Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3
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