Do you know the RPG called Changeling ? It was developped by White Wolf Publishing, but I think it''s not published anymore
the players would be fairies of all sorts, and their basic goal is to protect the Dreaming and fight the Banality (not sure of the words there, I am translating).

It''s interesting because each great family of fairy has specifics that distinguish it from others. You can be a Troll (a fairy Troll, not a real Troll), a Sidhe (sort of elf, really), a Pookah, etc. They have IIRC a sort of magic that''s based on an energy called the Glamour.

Maybe your heroins could be one of them ? Or a human that tries to protect the Dreaming ? Or that has a power based on the Glamour (the power to make dreams come true, of course! )

As for the target audience, indeed, it would be very hard to make something for the general public IMHO. Changeling RPG is no more sold for some reason... probably the concept is too had to grasp, and also it''s totally "a contrario" with the rest of the WhiteWolf works. It''s fresh, it''s nice, and you are trying to save something childish (the Dreaming...). It''s ... Peter Pan-esque, if I may say so.

I wish you had read Peter Pan, by Loisel (a french artist), it''s a much better adaptation of the story than the Disney one. Not because I don''t like Disney, but because Loisel''s is darke, and yet more dreamy... there is something much deeper in it, sadder.

Anyway, do I make any sense ?


Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

ahw - I finally found some information about Changeling, and protecting the dreaming - you didn''t miss the point at all, that''s essentially what I want to do, although I want to use a more science-fiction style.


Sarazen - you actually play the mortals, the goddes is basically a framing device, and a reason for the player to have knowledge beyond what the mortal would have.
I don''t think asking the player to create a game world that has actually already been created will be a problem - if there''s only one thing I can write really professionally well, it''s worldbuilding. My plots may need help, but people always complement the clarity and vividness of my worlds. Not to pat myself on the back here or anything, there are lots of other things I have yet to learn, I just wanted to explain why I wasn''t worried about what otherwise is a very legitimate concern. I have played PM2, and I did design a game like that once, but for this one I want to go the direction of the Longest Journey, if anyone''s played that yet - I just got it and I was really impressed - I played it cooperatively with my 8 yr old brother and we both understood all the plot and exposition, and thought it was a good story. My target audience will be a bit older than 8, but my game should be understandable by an intelligent 12 yr old or maybe a 15 yr old of average intelligence.

Ah the joy when someone actually listend to what I sya and check out the references I point to

By the way, I can''t help but think of Vision of Escaflowne.
Do you know this anime ? I thought about it in my previous post but wasn''t sure if it really related to your topic. But after viewing yesterday''s episode, I can''t help but think you shold check it out. There is a lot about Fate and changing Fate and how our dreams can come true, etc. Extremely good anime, really (but then again, it''s done by the guys who created Robotech and Lodoss ... which I both love).

I also recall giving you some pointers on manga games. Maybe I even showed you True Love, or Seasons of Sakura ?
Well. The mention to Princess Maker (which I can''t seem to be able to find ) reminds me of those games...
Also I like Sarazen idea of maybe separating the game into sorts of chapters, each could focus on one aspect to be changed, one character.
Of course your skill would come from interweaving all the different characters and chapters into an overall story line.
Sounds quite nice to me.

BTW, could you maybe expand on what the Longest Journey is ? I know the name but it could be heplpful for the discussion if you told us what it is, or essentially what elements you are interested in ?


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First of all, Season of Sakura and True Love are not great games. Season of Sakura is just constant clicking to advance a linear branch story. True Love fairs a little better in which the story occurs when you goto ta certain place at a certain time. But when you come down to it, all the game offers is 8 (I think) linear stories. So I don''t think those two are good examples if you want to make a good game. I''ve also played Princess Maker I and II unfortunately I haven''t got a chance to play III yet. PMII is a good game, but I do find it somewhat lacking on the side adventures, repeatitive tournaments, n other stuffs. I wonder why no one has mention Konami''s Tokimeki Memorial ?

Longest Journey is a really terrific game with a great story and different plots. And I do think if you want to write a story intensive game this would definately be the way to go.

sunandshadow- Thank you for the comments on my board. I have played Harvest Moon but I do find it a somewhat slow game which I intent to improve. Also I''ve decided to flash out the star festival aka lovers festival a lot more for the females audience to enjoy and hopefully that would improve the game a little more.

The Longest Journey is a new adventure game. It''s 3rd person, pre-rendered backgrounds like myst and most other recent adventure games. Interface is pretty typical - a smart cursor and an inventory. The game is broken into chapters, and generally the puzzles and the objects used to solve them are contained in the chapter, which also has a restricted setting - it''s essentially impossible to advance a chapter and then find that you are missing an object you needed to get in the second chapter. This self-containedness is also very handy for managing what npcs are supposed to say and limiting the savegame info needed, like whether you have viewed an object and gotten the long description or initial interaction, after which viewing that object again will give a shorter description. This game does not have a branching plot. I don''t want to spoil the story for anyone, but basically it plays with the gauranteed victory design of adventure games by making your character the prophesied one who cluelessly, through a combination of accident and application of common sense, manages to fulfill all the prophesies without even knowing there were any prophesies until people start calling you "The Waterstiller" and "The Windbringer" etc. It has a lot of humor too - there''s a cute inflatible ducky, a wind-up monkey drummer policeman, and a magical bad guy that gets eaten by the logicalness of a calculator. My only complaints were that some of the puzzles were counter-intuitive and the denomuent (resolution after the climax) was lame and way-obviously a set-up for a sequal.

I was thinking of emulating this and following sarazen''s suggestion in that each chapter would be a separate set of puzzles and settings, which would need to be completed to advance to the next chapter. Unlike the longest journey, in my game each chapter would have it''s own main character (at least for the first several chapters, I might want to start combining previous settings and characters towards the end. I think that instead of having multiple possible endings for each chapter, I will have each result in a mixed victory - the target problem was solved, but new smaller messes were created that will bother the main character of the next chapter. I also am going to go with sarazen''s idea of using the creation of a work of art (specifically a movie) as the solution to one chapter, the prejudice and bigotry one.

I actually liked true love a lot the first two times I played it. After that it was too boring though. And it made me mad that I couldn''t figure out how to get the guy.

I haven''t seen any vision of escaflowne, unfortunately, but the local science fiction society''s just getting geared up for the year, who knows, they may end up showing some.
___
I have a brand new mohawk! Yay me!

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Unlike the longest journey, in my game each chapter would have it''s own main character (at least for the first several chapters, I might want to start combining previous settings and characters towards the end. I think that instead of having multiple possible endings for each chapter, I will have each result in a mixed victory - the target problem was solved, but new smaller messes were created that will bother the main character of the next chapter.

Well, then, what I suggest could be feasible then ? Having all the characters kinda "connect" in an overall grand scheme of things...
An example of what I can think of would be Pulp fiction.
Three stories of characters whose paths cross at some stage in the movie but not necessarily in a "relay" sort of way.
Think of Half Life and its sequels if you will.
In Half Life, at some stage, you have to jump into a teleport gate while everything is collapsing around you.
In Opposing Forces, the (non)sequel, you are playing a grunt, who doesn''t know anything about the story of the first episode, and who plays the game in parallel to the first episode''s character. At some stage in the game, you arrive jsut in time to see Freeman (the hero of the first game), jump through the teleport area while everything collapses around him.
Similarly, in Blue shift (the third sequel?), at some stage you see Gordon Freeman being taken away by soldiers, inconsicious (which happened to you in the first episode, when you play Gordon)...
does that make any sense ?

What I am saying is that having sort of chapters is definitely fine, but you have to have some sort of "fil rouge" (red thread ?) to follow as the player (not as the character(s)).

quote:
I actually liked true love a lot the first two times I played it. After that it was too boring though. And it made me mad that I couldn''t figure out how to get the guy.

You can get ... a ... guy ?! Gee, I don''t remember that one... my personal dissapointement was with Season of Sakura where I don''t seem to be able to get the girl who wants to become a nun, and that dark moddy one, my favourite

My mention of the anime games is more to do with the fact that you can''t really lose. only miss all the goodies... A bit like you can play Cobra Island (another anime game) and rescu the damzel and kill all the baddies and never see a tit (but if you look around ... hehe )
I think, unlike most people who deny this form of cRPG, that eastern cRPG have a nice way to convey the story and never really put you into a totally unsolvable situation. Of course you end up with the "try again syndrome" where most chats end up looping until you choose the correct path, but hey...

quote:
I haven''t seen any vision of escaflowne, unfortunately, but the local science fiction society''s just getting geared up for the year, who knows, they may end up showing some.

Well, it''s a pretty new serie. It barely started in France on the pay per view TV (but thank heavens during the free hours)
So I''d be surprised if you didn''t see it soon ? It seems we French, with the Spanish, we get manga translated much faster than for the US...

quote: I have a brand new mohawk! Yay me!

Yay !




Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !