Looks interesting, JSwing, thanks for the heads-up.

Kind of an ''instant character generator''... You''re right that those little details can really help flesh out a character.

R.

I picked up a book called: "The Legacy of the Drow" by R.A. Salvatore. It''s really good to learn how to write novels and game using a fantasy world, mainly because its by a writer who can make sense, unlike other who will skip back and forth and people don''t even know. By the way, I think charecter generation is a personal thing, if you can''t come up with them yourself, you probably shouldn''t do it, though I can see why that book can be used a reference, anybody who wants to "learn how to make charecters" shouldn''t bother.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

JSwing: I have that character traits book - I read through it when I got it and thought it was interesting. I haven''t found any use for it since then, but I''ll probably come up with a character who gives me problems eventually, and then I''ll look at it again.

Drizzt: Hmm, I think I''ll disagree. There are many published authors, especially in 70s science fiction, but also in 70s fantasy, who had cardboard characters in every book they wrote. Knowing how to write good characters isn''t an essential part of being a writer, although it''s hard to be a good writer without it. Also many people can write excellent characters as long as the character is just like them or their ideal mate or someone they know very well, but need help learning how to write new types of characters, for which this book could be useful.

Drizzt, while I agree Salvatore is a decent writer I have to say that generally the quality of writing in most of these AD&D inspired novels is pitiful at best. And character generation can often be helped by access to tables of common character traits, personality quirks, etc., particularly if you''re populating a game world with largely superficial characters. Add a bit of flavour to their existence can really add to the experience of meeting them in a story or game.

R.

Tacit:

You have yet to read a D&D book, if you can say the charecter''s are not explained well enough. I would suggest you buy a book *by* Salvatore, and read it, before you make comments on it. I am not calling the authors of The Players Handbook and The Dungeon Master''s Guide great authors, they just wrote rule books, I am calling a *good* fantasy writer a good writer. He focuses on one charecter through most of the books in his series, because the book is about that charecter. But since you have read them, I am sure you knew that. Even with that in mind, he gives detailed explanations of the other characters. You made it seem like he says: "Cattie-brie''s level is 4, her stregnth is 13, and she is an arcane archer."

I think not. He forms the charecters from what he knows, and then, he forms charecters from what he thinks. Maybe for fantasy writing, things are different, but I would refuse to buy a book that teaches me to design a charecter. If I cannot do it myself, I can''t do it at all.

I can design a charecter, and I can design a world. I find designing a game to be different, and I can understand why a reference book might be needed, but as for designing a charecter, I categorize it two ways: Adapts, or Does not Adapt.

If he adapts, I base his charecter idea on the setting, and the things that come into my mind while I am thinking of how charecters should adapt to my setting.

If he does not adapt, then I think of him as I would a wild animal, and I give him qualities that I would think of for an intelligent monster.

This is a basic format I sometimes follow, and I change formats depending on pieces I start to write. Worded formulas, they could be called. I do not need a book to teach me formulas for my stories, if it doesn''t come to me, then I shouldnt write about it.

This is my opinion, and I would appreciate not to be flamed for it. Thank you.

"I''ve sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do''Urden

My goodness Drizzt, must you be so abrasive? If you read my post again carefully, you''ll see that I agreed with you that Salvatore is a strong writer, but generally speaking in my opinion the D&D inspired books (novels, not modules or rule books, just to clarify what I mean by books since you didn''t get it last time) are not very well written. I didn''t say anything about the characters not being described well enough, but this in itself doesn''t make the writing good.

And FYI, I have read many of these novels, beginning with the original Dragonlance novels by Weiss/Hickman. I also am a professional writer and have studied writing and English literature, so I think I am qualified to state whether I believe a particular novel or series of books is well written or not. Just because you choose to name yourself after a character from one of these books doesn''t make the books well written. In fact, none of the examples you quote are things I would consider make a book or piece of writing good.

Also, the book JSwing mentioned was a resource for writing. Many books are able to aid in writing without teaching you how to write. Personally, I have never read a book on ''how to write a novel'' or ''how to create characters'', nor would I. But there are many reference books that I have used that I would not want to be without.

So rather than accusing me of flaming you, perhaps you should allow others the right to express their opinions about yours. You seem to feel it is your right to do so, why should it not also be mine?

I don''t think I''ve been unreasonable in anything that I''ve said, but if the moderator thinks I have been out of line then I apologize.

R.

quote: Original post by Drizzt DoUrden
I would refuse to buy a book that teaches me to design a charecter. If I cannot do it myself, I can''t do it at all.

Hmm. Doesn''t that approach make it awfully difficult to learn anything? Why waste time on trial and effort when you can benefit from others'' experience and wisdom? I have a book on how to draw anime, one on how to carve a carousel horse, one on how to read Latin, etc. Can you imagine trying to learn how to cook something without a cookbook or even a recipie?

I''d have to agree with the people saying that character design is something that you either know how to do or you don''t. It''s an essential part of writing, just like describing a scene or conveying a mood or maintaining a coherent storyline. You have to learn how to do those things in order to be a half decent writer, you can''t just pull canned characters out of a reference book.
Here''s a trick that I figured out early on, and I don''t know how many people use it, but it works for me pretty well. I take a few people I know, or used to know, and combine their personal traits and characteristics and sometimes visual appearance to describe my characters. That way I always know what a given character would do in a given situation, and therefore subplots and various plot twists and even parts of dialogue end up literally writing themselves. This may sound like sci-fi to some people, but very often, especially in larger projects, my characters literally get out of control, and I have to modify the original plot to accomodate the changes that they "want." That might sound a little schizophrenic, but when you have a frame of reference for a character, it''s easier to get into that character''s mindset and then you just *know* what they are going to do. Then again, you have to know a lot of people, otherwise your characters end up all the same.
Anyway, my two pesos.

-goltrpoat


--
Float like a butterfly, bite like a crocodile.