OK, so here''s my take on the topic.

Games that had a good sense of tragedy were IMHO the first two Wing Commander games with a few good retakes in the following games. Most notably were the funerals that about never failed on me, also they had a good sense of drama in other scenes (like Angel dying in WC3).

Then there''s "Shannara". I don''t think many of you played it, but there''s a scene in which you have to kill a party character to save her from the "dark side". The whole dilemma is slowly developed over several parts of the game, so this seemingly silly task is made consistent with the games world.

A very much more recent example of working drama is Anachronox. Despite of it''s general slapstick/sarcastic atmosphere, there are dramatic scenes that do a damn good job. I especially think of the flashback scene that explains Fatimas'' death.

Now what makes drama? I''m by no means an expert, but one thing that many good drama scenes have in common are the elements that are also used in movies. A good background music can work wonders, an example would be the short snippet that was played when a wingman was killed in Wing Commander 1. It was wonderful considering it was rather badly synthesized MIDI. There''s also voice talent involved. A well read text part is cool also. And there''s of course a need to lead the story to a point of drama in a plausible way. The player must be able to understand why a scene is supposed to be sad; this involves a good deal of immersion.

A well written book is amazing in that there''s only the last element I mentioned. There are scenes in Edding''s Belgariad and Malloreon that really made me weep because those books are written in a way that familiarizes you with the characters in a way that makes you understand who''s hurt and why.

So where does this lead us? There''s a simple lesson to be learned: work on the story. You can have the flashiest death scenes, the most minor chords per second and all the voice talents on the planet, but you still need a binding element to bring them together. And that''s an element not many game developers seem to have heard of nowadays. Gamers aren''t dumb, as I see it most have a talent to build on any incomplete storyline and create something completely new, but they also can add minor details from slight hints to create a richer environment; that''s something too cool to be forgotten. Think of imagination as an additional hardware extension with a simple yet powerful API and use it. Add "Imagination" to the requirements on the box.

Sorry if the above seems inconsistent, but I actually like good stories that involve all kinds of feelings and IMHO the whole topic is not considered well enough in the industry. Just think of it as a spontaneous brain dump ;-)

One of the big problems with game design and the need for better stories is that the people currently designing games THINK THEY ARE WRITERS. I bought the Playstation Hoshigami the other day. A complete FFT ripoff which, in case you''ve never played the original, is a strategy based game centered around a story.

The FFT story was done to an acceptable degree, with subpar dialogue. Hoshigami, on the other hand, is complete trash. I got about three hours into the game before getting angry and deleting my save slot. Whoever wrote that game is not a writer. Just a moron bouncing around game stereotypes.

And that''s the problem. Designers don''t go out and seek writers. They just pick some worthless schmuck off the staff and stick a pen in their hands. Hell, even when they do get a writer, it''s never a GOOD writer. Any halfwit dork with a decent vocabulary can write a story(see: Ted Woolsey), but it takes somebody truly talented to write a truly moving story.

The gaming industry needs an Orson Welles equivalent. Orson Welles took a rather simple, weak industry and made people realize the true potential of it. He was one of the first people to take film the extra step. We need more people like this in the gaming industry. Creative and innovative individuals with the power to defeat the corporate stranglehold over what could be a creative dymano.

GAME WRITERS OF ALL COUNTRIES, UNITE!

Have I cried over a game?....not yet and I''m disapointed that it hasn''t happened. I''m not an overly emotional person but I cried when Gandalf fell and Boramir died in The Lord of the Rings, and I had read the books. Aries death came very close...they really let you know her before she died.But I let out my sadness with anger rather then tears due to the ability to revive any other dead character with a phoenix down. Fallout''s ending was quite tragic, very real life, but still it caused a bit of anger at going through everything only to be tossed out on ones butt. I''ve looked at the story I''m helping write for a friends rpg since reading this topic and have changed my mind on a few plot points. I''m going to try harder to incorperate some tradegy into the story. I''ve come to believe that tradegy, as well as humor, drama, action, ect are important parts of a real story. Well wish me luck, maybe I can get a few tears,

Besides the lack of writing talent in the industry, no one is exactlly sure how to do it. In book and movies, even if the writer is only semi-talented he has read tragic stories before and something to base it off. That is why Im not extremely pissed at game companies for most games being so very shallow.

Has anyone played The Longest Journey. I remember being really sad at the end. It was a sort of happy ending, but it was still really sad. Sort of like the end of LoTR. At the end of both of those stories I felt like they had been through so much, and I had gotten to know the characters so well, it was very sad to see the adventure come to an end.

The Longest journey is a very good exmaple, but I believe it was based on an award winning novel. With the work of a good writer to work from its not as hard to make a game feel tragic.

i got pretty attached to minsic in BG. even when i would cheat with multiplayer i had to bring him along. "Boo says time to start butt kicking for goodness" hehe but theres no tragedy in BG; there was attachment.

WING COMMANDER! ya there was tragedy. man loosing your pal sucked.


btw i think my post on save games is related to this. tragedy has to be scripted in with a save anywhere design. Minsic is never going to perma die on me cause ill hit load 2 seconds after. we need permanence. consequence. Cant remember wing commander but i think i had a habit of redoing a mission if my partner died. that might have been scripted though. man its been a long time.






[edited by - declspec on May 11, 2002 10:06:12 PM]